<div dir="ltr"><div>It could be due to sparse data and some size classes being missing. For example going from a DB to a matrix.<br><br></div>Laurie<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Ernesto <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu" target="_blank">ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div>Hi,<br>
      <br>
      That can be done already, the range name we use for age is "max"
      and "min" so we can use it directly for lengths.<br>
      <br>
      Not so sure about using different bin's size. Methods would need
      to check each bin size ...<br>
      <br>
      One doubt, when using different bin's size aren't you getting
      close to the age structure ? kind of slicing ?<br>
      <br>
      Best<br>
      <br>
      EJ<div><div class="h5"><br>
      <br>
      On 05/22/2013 03:38 PM, Santiago Cerviño wrote:<br>
    </div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      
      
      
      <div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Length based models
              usually group length classes for different causes.
              Sometimes you do not have
              the whole information; sometimes you need to simplify your
              model; you might need
              to make big groups for larger fish and small ones for
              medium size fish, etc. I
              think len bins should be user defined without constraints.
              It is also important
              to have the whole information (lower length and upper
              length) for each bin somewhere.
              This information will be needed. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Could work this idea that
              keeps consistency with FLR age names using only one
              number? For instance 5, 12,
              20, 30 that means 5-12, 12-20, 20-30, 30-??. We would only
              need that maximum length
              is defined somewhere to know the size of the last bin
              (minage, maxage slots
              used for minlen maxlen).<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy" lang="EN-GB">Santi<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext">
                  <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
                </span></font></div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">De:</span></font></b><font color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext">
                  <a href="mailto:flr-list-bounces@lists.r-forge.r-project.org" target="_blank">flr-list-bounces@lists.r-forge.r-project.org</a>
                  [<a href="mailto:flr-list-bounces@lists.r-forge.r-project.org" target="_blank">mailto:flr-list-bounces@lists.r-forge.r-project.org</a>]
                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold">En nombre de </span></b>Ernesto<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Enviado el:</span></b>
                  22 May 2013 13:55<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Para:</span></b>
                  <a href="mailto:flr-list@r-forge.wu-wien.ac.at" target="_blank">flr-list@r-forge.wu-wien.ac.at</a><br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Asunto:</span></b>
                  Re: [FLR-list] size</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">It won't
                  work in several situations and IMO trying to
                  find a solution for all doesn't work. We need to find
                  a solution that works and
                  implement methods for the others. We may try to be
                  consistent with
                  "age" and use [10,11) represented by "10" in the
                  length
                  names.<br>
                  <br>
                  Best<br>
                  <br>
                  EJ<br>
                  <br>
                  On 05/22/2013 02:43 PM, Laurie Kell wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite">
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">but wont work with age
                      slicing which is based on > & <=. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Laurie<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, May 22, 2013 at
                      2:41 PM, Ernesto <<a href="mailto:ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu" target="_blank">ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu</a>>
                      wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi,<br>
                          <br>
                          Yes, that is a problem that we need to sort
                          out. I'm considering using
                          midpoints. It has the advantage of being easy
                          to coerce into numeric. In most
                          cases that's what one needs for computations.
                          Using boundaries will require
                          other(s) operation(s) to get midpoints.<br>
                          <br>
                          Best<br>
                          <br>
                          EJ <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                            Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                              <br>
                              On 05/22/2013 02:23 PM, Laurie Kell wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite">
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">There is
                                      an issue, boring
                                      but may be important to agree on
                                      now, i.e. labeling of length bins.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">What does a
                                    length bin
                                    mean, i.e. if the "quant" dim
                                    represents length? and the values
                                    are
                                    5, 10, ...?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">In the
                                  mixdist package
                                  these are the righthand boundaries
                                  i.e. they represent (0,5] and (5,10].
                                  But if
                                  they are the lefthand boundaries then
                                  they represent (5,10] and (10,INF]. Or
                                  they could be midpoints. One option
                                  would be to explicitly label the bins
                                  with
                                  the boundaries and then have methods
                                  for going backwards and forwards
                                  between
                                  parametric and non-parametric methods.
                                  Or to have an attribute that tracks
                                  the
                                  properties.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                                Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Otherwise I
                                  can see a lot of time being wasted in
                                  stock assessments. well more than
                                  normal.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                              Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Laurie <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                                Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, May
                                  22, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Ernesto <<a href="mailto:ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu" target="_blank">ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu</a>>
                                  wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                                  Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On
                                    05/22/2013 12:02 PM, Ernesto wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                                  Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On
                                    05/22/2013 11:34 AM, Sarah Kraak
                                    wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                                  Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi
                                    FLR-guys,<br>
                                    <br>
                                    As you know I am not an active FLR
                                    user, but last year I showed some
                                    interest
                                    in whether you have size-based stuff
                                    in FLR (see attached email). In the
                                    meanwhile Coilin Minto and myself
                                    have been working on something (also
                                    attached
                                    - note this is a draft of the idea;
                                    at the moment we are working on the
                                    code to
                                    get the final graphs out) which we
                                    are coding in R but which
                                    could/should
                                    eventually been done in FLR. Perhaps
                                    you are interested.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Cheers,<br>
                                    Sarah<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                                  Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                                    Hi,<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Following Laurie's suggestion I've
                                    started a git repository for length<br>
                                    methods in FLRhttps://<a href="http://github.com/ejardim/FLMethLen" target="_blank">github.com/ejardim/FLMethLen</a><br>
                                    <br>
                                    Maybe our first task should be o
                                    write down what we're doing with
                                    length<br>
                                    data. Laurie's working on ALKs, so I
                                    guess you're interested in<br>
                                    converting length frequencies to
                                    ages for stock assessment !? We
                                    (a4a)<br>
                                    are working on OMs and how to
                                    generate them from length based data
                                    so<br>
                                    that uncertainty on the growth model
                                    can be included in the MSE. Sarah<br>
                                    and Colin Minto are working on
                                    selectivity. What else ?<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Best<br>
                                    <br>
                                    EJ<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                                Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi,<br>
                                  <br>
                                  I've updated the readme to reflect the
                                  latest messages. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times
                                    New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                                      <br>
                                      EJ<br>
                                      <br>
                                      -- <br>
                                      Ernesto Jardim<<a href="mailto:ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu" target="_blank">ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu</a>><br>
                                      Fisheries Scientist<br>
                                      FISHREG – Scientific Support to
                                      Fisheries<br>
                                      IPSC Maritime Affairs Unit<br>
                                      EC Joint Research Center<br>
                                      TP 051, Via Enrico Fermi 2749<br>
                                      I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy<br>
                                      Office : <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%20785311" value="+390332785311" target="_blank">+39 0332
                                        785311</a><br>
                                      Fax: <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%20789658" value="+390332789658" target="_blank">+39 0332
                                        789658</a><br>
                                      <a href="https://fishreg.jrc.ec.europa.eu/" target="_blank">https://fishreg.jrc.ec.europa.eu/</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      flr-list mailing list<br>
                                      <a href="mailto:flr-list@flr-project.org" target="_blank">flr-list@flr-project.org</a><br>
                                      <a href="https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/flr-list" target="_blank">https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/flr-list</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>

                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                              Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
                            Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                              <br>
                              <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                        <fieldset></fieldset>
                        <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                        <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">flr-list mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                        <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:flr-list@flr-project.org" target="_blank">flr-list@flr-project.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                        <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/flr-list" target="_blank">https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/flr-list</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>

                      </blockquote>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">-- <u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Ernesto Jardim<a href="mailto:ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu" target="_blank"><ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu></a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>

                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Fisheries Scientist<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">FISHREG – Scientific Support to Fisheries<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">IPSC Maritime Affairs Unit<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">EC Joint Research Center<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">TP 051, Via Enrico Fermi 2749<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Office : <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%20785311" value="+390332785311" target="_blank">+39 0332 785311</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>

                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Fax: <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%20789658" value="+390332789658" target="_blank">+39 0332 789658</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>

                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="https://fishreg.jrc.ec.europa.eu/" target="_blank">https://fishreg.jrc.ec.europa.eu/</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>

                      <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></pre>
                    </div>
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                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      flr-list mailing list<br>
                      <a href="mailto:flr-list@flr-project.org" target="_blank">flr-list@flr-project.org</a><br>
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            <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
            <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">flr-list mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
            <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:flr-list@flr-project.org" target="_blank">flr-list@flr-project.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
            <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/flr-list" target="_blank">https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/flr-list</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>

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          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">-- <u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Ernesto Jardim<a href="mailto:ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu" target="_blank"><ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu></a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>

          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Fisheries Scientist<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">FISHREG – Scientific Support to Fisheries<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">IPSC Maritime Affairs Unit<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">EC Joint Research Center<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">TP 051, Via Enrico Fermi 2749<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy<u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Office : <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%20785311" value="+390332785311" target="_blank">+39 0332 785311</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>

          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Fax: <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%20789658" value="+390332789658" target="_blank">+39 0332 789658</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="https://fishreg.jrc.ec.europa.eu/" target="_blank">https://fishreg.jrc.ec.europa.eu/</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></pre>
          <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></pre>
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      <pre>_______________________________________________
flr-list mailing list
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<a href="https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/flr-list" target="_blank">https://lists.r-forge.r-project.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/flr-list</a>
</pre>
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    <br>
    <br>
    <pre cols="72">-- 
Ernesto Jardim<a href="mailto:ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu" target="_blank"><ernesto.jardim@jrc.ec.europa.eu></a>
Fisheries Scientist
FISHREG – Scientific Support to Fisheries
IPSC Maritime Affairs Unit
EC Joint Research Center
TP 051, Via Enrico Fermi 2749
I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy
Office : <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%20785311" value="+390332785311" target="_blank">+39 0332 785311</a>
Fax: <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%20789658" value="+390332789658" target="_blank">+39 0332 789658</a>
<a href="https://fishreg.jrc.ec.europa.eu/" target="_blank">https://fishreg.jrc.ec.europa.eu/</a>

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